What does it mean to lead when the ground keeps shifting beneath your feet?
Francisco Sagasti knows. In November 2020, he became President of Peru – third head of state in a single week. If anyone understands what it takes to steer through chaos, it’s him. The Institute’s media fellow, Felix Rohrbeck, sat down with him for an interview and asked him questions about democracy, chaos, and the courage to lead.
This past trimester, Sagasti joined The New Institute as a fellow, quietly working to finish a book he began over 45 years ago, centered around Francis Bacon, the philosopher who said, “Knowledge is power.” However, Sagasti brought more than scholarship; he brought the lived experience of a leader who has weathered storms and the humility to admit, “If you approach such a volatile situation with a rigid plan, you’ve already lost.”
So, what matters in a crisis?
- Mindset: A willingness to understand complexity and approach each day as a new problem to solve.
- Evidence: Not just numbers, but also the qualitative pulse of a nation – listening, reading, and learning.
- Character: The conviction that all citizens are equal and that leadership means resisting
privilege, not embracing it.
Sagasti’s approach wasn’t theoretical. When Peru faced a vaccine vacuum, he rose at 4:30 a.m., read scientific journals, and negotiated with nine companies. He prioritized transparency and fairness, even when the pressure mounted from every corner of society.
On autocracy and democracy: Sagasti is convinced: autocratic regimes ultimately fail – not because of external pressure, but because they cannot adapt, cannot listen, cannot inspire hope. “Autocrats think they are indispensable,” he says. “But systems that cannot change, break.”
On the future, and Bacon’s legacy: We are, Sagasti believes, at the end of the “Baconian epoch.” The challenge now: to find a path between the extremes, to let different logics coexist, and – quoting Leonard Cohen – “ring the bells that still can ring… there is a crack in everything, that’s how the light gets in.”
A message to the next generation: His advice? Get involved. Don’t let cynicism or complexity drive you away from politics. If the committed withdraw, the field is left to the power-hungry. Plato warned us: the price of not engaging is being governed by the worst.
As we conclude our fellowship program, Sagasti’s words resonate: Leadership is not about certainty, but curiosity, courage, and character. There is no such thing as a perfect offering – only a willingness to let in the light.
Bulletin 78
October 2025